Sorry for the delay. One of my best friends got married yesterday, so the preceding week has been pretty busy up till now.
The introduction of "The Gay Gospel?" : "Between Comfort and Truth", Joe Dallas
One first things I noticed was that Dallas is not exclusively homosexual.
"..by the time I converted to Christianity at age 16 I'd had numerous sexual experiences with both men and women." (p.12)
And so far, he hasn't made an attempt to distinguish between homosexual, gay, bisexual, transsexual, or asexual (sorry if I left anything else out). I get the impression that homosexual/gay is an all encompassing category. But maybe he will later on. (Some would say these two facts, if left unexplained, could put an unfair amount of weight on his findings.)
Another thing jumped out at me when Dallas was describing his experience in an affirming church. He recalls the pastors sermon...
"We swallow their lies, we believe we're perverts, so we act like perverts! No wonder so many of us have been promiscuous! No wonder so many of us have lived half our lives getting drunk in bars, or high on drugs, or prowling in bathhouses. When you've been oppressed, and when you've been told all your life you're the rottenest kind of sinner, you believe it! That's why there's so much self-destructive behavior in our community!" (17)
Dallas makes the case that the "gay" community uses these ideas to explain the sin in their lives rather than the idea that homosexuality itself is sinful and produces bad fruit.
I can see where he was coming from. Being oppressed doesn't justify any bad behavior that results from it. But I guess that's not really what's in question. What's in question is whether or not same sex sexual activity is part of that list of bad behaviors...
As I read that, I could hear someone retort, "What about the African American community? While their oppression doesn't justify their sometime sinful behavior, it does not put into question whether or not their blackness had something to do with that bad behavior."
But again, that opens up more questions. When know for certain that skin color is unchangeable (actually that's not necessarily true...not to be mean, but Michael Jackson) and its something that you're definitely born with. We can't on a scientific level say the same for sexual orientation with certainty...as far as I know at least. *
*I'm aware that most medical associations will tell you that it is very unlikely change in sexual orientation can or will occur. There is a lack of conclusive evidence to support claims by ex-gay ministries. But there also has not been much of an attempt to produce long term studies on the subject.
-- July 18th, 2010, 12:25 pm --
Chapter 1 in "The Gay Gospel?": "Where we are now", by Joe Dallas
"The gay Christian movement...represents a tendency among Christians who are homosexually tempted to yield to that temptation and then try to justify it." (22)
I might argue that this is not the case for many gay Christians. Especially those who grew up in very Christian communities, went through decades of ex-gay therapy involving prayer, exorcism, fasting, and lots of money, only to find it didn't work for them. It was only after trying these things, and finding it didn't work for them, that they looked for explanations (or maybe they decided to write a book that was originally intended to prove that same sex sexual activity was wrong, but after further study, came to different conclusions...
).
I feel that the way Dallas presents his idea here doesn't quite represent the big picture of the "gay christian" experience.
I think Dallas brings up some important points in this chapter. He talks about a lot of bad theology coming out of some gay-affirming churches, like Foundry Methodist Church in Washington DC. Ideas that consider, "whether or not Jesus was a cross-dressing 'drag queen'"**....or strip Jesus of his "less-appealing qualities. Forget repentance, cross-bearing, and sanctified living. The sins that matter to Him mostly concern social justice, ecology, and the evils of fundamentalism" (29)
While I do think social justice and ecology are extremely important, and fundamentalism can sometimes be dangerous, I don't forget that the reason I believe those things is because of the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ. He is the reason I repent, bear my cross, get involved in social justice, and helping the environment. Without Jesus, I have no reason to be truly involved and motivated to make a difference in those places.
Another very important point...
"So the homosexual is caught between two voices: the liberal and the conservative Christian, both of whom are repeating part--but only part--of Christ's words to another sexual sinner, the adulterous woman: "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more" (John 8:11).
"Neither do I condemn you," the liberal comforts today's homosexual. "Go and sin"
"I do condemn you," the conservative Christian too often seems to retort, "go and sin no more!" Or else he just says, "Go!" The sinner is then left alone to figure out just how to, "sin no more."
I might argue that the liberal does not say "go and sin." Rather, he or she just leaves that last part off completely, saying only, "Neither do I condemn you."
Regardless, I think this makes an excellent point.
Something interesting here. Dallas quotes Mr. Ron Rhodes, and says
"A person does not usually join a cult because he has done an exhaustive analysis of world religions and has decided that a particular cult presents the best theology available. Instead, a person generally joins a cult because he has problems that eh is having trouble solving and the cult promises to solve these problems" (30)
I see how he's trying to relate this to people who join gay-affirming churches just to hear what they want to hear, but this actually made me think of the whole body of Christian believers. I'm willing to bet that most Christians (maybe 90%), do not do an exhaustive analysis of world religions and afterword decide that Christianity presents the best theology available. For him to bring this up in order to further his point opens up more cans of worms than its worth...
I think that most people in the world do not do an exhaustive analysis of most things before doing whatever it is they're going to do. I'm not saying that's a good thing, I'm just stating that there's more to this statement then he's using it for. But this is another debate.
In this chapter he begins to define what the word gay means in his view.
"...gay has become a commonly understood term meaning not only homosexual, but homosexually affirming as well. So when a person says, "I'm gay," he's normally not just admitting his homosexuality. He's also saying, in effect, "I accept my homosexuality and celebrate it as normal and good....So when referring to a person, institution, or mind-set that affirms homosexuality, I may at times use gay as a descriptive term...I'm using a term identified with the approval of homosexuality."
As far as I can tell, gay is a term used to describe someone who affirms homosexuality. But that doesn't give us the actual definition of homosexual. Nor does it account for bisexuality, intersexuality, or transsexuality.
**Dallas does make note that these ideas do not represent the mainstream belief among gay affirming churches. Later on, he states that many gay affirming churches are shockingly similar to evangelical, bible-believing churches. In his view, that is part of the temptation that draws you in. On the outside, it looks just like any other bible-believing church. But he believes that once you get there, you discover bad theology and bad fruit
-- July 18th, 2010, 1:18 pm --
Meanwhile...In my bible studies.....
After reading these two books, I need to just take a break and read the bible to keep me sane. So I decided to read through Galations, simply because this is where much of the talk about the law comes in and what it means to no longer be under it.
Well, little did I know that the verses God lead me to read from Isaiah 54 are quoted by Paul in Galations 4:27! I think I'm on to something
Lots of great/compelling/interesting verses are in this book:
"But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith"...Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us" 3:12-13
"Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." 3:25
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus" 3:28
"Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,[a] and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love." 5:1-6
"Only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another." 5:13-15
"I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another." 5:16-26I know that's about half the book I just quoted, but there's so much to talk about.
Paul is addressing a church who repeatedly falls under the bondage of the law. He explains that once your start observing some of the law, you are indebted to follow the whole law. And we know that no one is justified by the law, but through faith in Christ alone. God gave us His Son and the Holy Spirit to free us from the chains of the law and make us justified before Him.
However, our freedom from the law, does not give us license to indulge in the sins of the flesh which Paul says are evident/obvious. He goes on to list those things...not necessarily including homosexuality in the list, but possibly implying it with the words, "and the like."
What exactly does Paul mean when he says, "the law" and "works of the flesh"
How can we say for certain what was implied by Paul when he said, "and the like"? Are the sins of the flesh so evident? Whether yes or no, surely the fruits of the spirit are. And against the fruit of the spirit, there is no law.
But what about demons? They know the bible too. They can perform miracles and are capable of producing fruit that seems good. I guess in the end, fruits show themselves (good taste, bitter stomach). But that makes finding the truth a waiting game...can that be right or am I just being impatient right now? How can we stand confidently in truth and be prepared to give an account of our hope if we have to wait for the fruit to show itself?
I can't wait to see where God takes me next!
P.S.
Can I just say that while I was at my friends wedding, I ran into their neighbors, the Godshalls. Actually, they ran into me. Mr. Godshall found out from my mom that I was going to be heading to seminary and came over to talk to me. He is episcopalian and in the course of making a pitch for that tradition, and he said that he didn't care about skin color or sexual orientation or anything like that the bible, reason, and science were all equally important and can't be left at the door. He told me to stay open and use your brain, haha.I'll do my best!
